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Tony
8/18/2010
16:44:32
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 Subject: will the sevice work end
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I was talking to a few techs we all agree that the s/c are going to get less and less. How do you guys feel?
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larry
8/18/2010
17:02:47
| RE: will the sevice work end
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put a fork in us, we are done
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Clickman
8/18/2010
17:10:31
| RE: will the service work end
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nope here for some time to come, paper path means jams, the MPS computer think is never going to figure way to change a fuser roller over the network connection- the low end throw aways have reached the bottom and there is still service.
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ct
8/18/2010
17:22:48
| RE: will the sevice work end
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As long as it takes some sort of mechanical, electronic, electrical and some sort of expertise of said equipment, there will be some sort of service to be done. They said we would be a paperless society 10+ years ago..... right. :-)
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ted
8/18/2010
17:42:57
| RE: will the sevice work end
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As long as the chinks keep making parts for these things, we ain't got nothin' to worry about..
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Desert Tech
8/18/2010
18:37:43
| RE: will the sevice work end
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MPS will soon fade, people will realize they've been had. There will always be service to do. Like CT said they've been saying for years we will be paperless, but we're pushing more paper now than we ever did. We keep getting busier and busier. Be affordable and you'll have work
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larry
8/18/2010
19:50:04
| RE: will the sevice work end
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are you guys awake?
The small MF machines are at 40 cpm, that does duplex and all. Granted we will have some business that need a ir 6070 but all the mid to small is wiped out. Customers are doing drum replacements.
I dont know about you fellas but I do not see a bottom in the Multi funcions.
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tonerjockey
8/18/2010
20:28:46
| RE: will the sevice work end
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i was just called by a former "best customer" based on annual gross, until they were sold all new machines because "the old ones didnt work with our new system" they are all hp p4015's. well they call for a black line. simple enough. i go out with a good used fuser and install it. told them that i can get the kit or fuser. machine at about 45k. they said "oh, i don't know, i will have to see what the person in charge wants to do" i said well, my part is in there so let me know. it was a great big emergency 2 Fridays ago at 4:00 pm. so i left a message last week and no reply. i called back today asking what they wanted me to do. sell them my used part, or get them a new one. they call back saying that they will have the new part and i can pick up my part later this week. an hour later they call and say, we put the new part in and "your part is here on the table and you can come and pick it up". WELL!!! hows that for emergency service with a smile for you. so i will jack up my diagnostic as well as the used part rental fees. hope that this isn't the trend. Jim
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Desert Tech
8/18/2010
21:54:27
| RE: will the service work end
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Any customer or IT department geek can go online and find a part for cheaper. But then they have to order it, and usually have to provide a credit card #, then either pay big $$ to have it overnight shipped or wait for it to arrive.
What we need to do is make all of that 'not worth their effort'. The biggest reason I have found why customers start the DIY trend is because service companies [like us] have this "Walgreen's" mentality [as a former employer used to tout] "make as much profit as you can on each visit". And that kind of reasoning has come back to bite many service providers. IT folks may be kind of dense at times, but generally people know or can figure out when they're being taken advantage of.
If your rates are reasonable [based on local market trends, not BTA studies, etc] and you price your parts and supplies reasonably, before long these customers take on the POV that it's less hassle to let you take care of them, even if it costs a little more, then for them to do it themselves. Sure, there is always some IT geek that wants to be the jack-of-all-trades but their kind burn out soon enough. By doing this, yes, you will work more and no, you won't earn as much, but you will most likely stay afloat. It's all a matter of adapting to the changing market. I figure no amount of whining on our parts is going to change the industry's M/O. If a customer expresses interest in DIY service, ask them what you need to do to keep their business. Being in business used to mean expanding and growing, capturing market share, etc. Now it's all about making enough to pay the bills and keep the roof over your family.
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glenn
8/19/2010
04:15:33
| RE: will the sevice work end
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Jim, How bout "I'll wait a few minutes for you to find out if you want me to order a new fuser or leave the used one in. The cost of the new fuser is X, the cost of the used fuser is Y. If I leave the used fuser in (to keep you up and running) and you decide in the future to not have your machine repaired, the rental is Z". Z should be fairly substantial because you have to go back to pick it up. Hindsite is awesome.
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tuey
8/19/2010
06:27:06
| RE: will the sevice work end
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all i do is small and midsize-- the stuff the dealers say is just junk because they can't make enough profit.i seem to be staying busy-- wish i was making more profit, but i'm making enough to get by, and i'll still be here when things turn around. tuey
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copiertech1
8/19/2010
06:33:13
| RE: will the sevice work end
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what i do is put in the used part n tell the costomer that ill order the part n have it in 2 days. if they say they need talk to the boss i say fine n go put out the part n put theirs back in. tell them to call me if they want me to order. bill
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MLynch
8/19/2010
08:46:32
|  RE: will the sevice work end
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Copiertech1 got it right. Someone once said you get what you pay for.
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Keith
8/19/2010
12:01:04
| RE: will the sevice work end
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If you are an older guy ride it out. If you are a young man GET OUT NOW while there is still time to work your way up in another industry.
A sinking ship can only stay afloat for so long.
In this business a tech makes a living a good salesman makes the money and a bad salesman goes wee wee wee all the way home.
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raym
8/19/2010
15:11:15
| RE: will the sevice work end
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dt, the more i read your posts, the more i see just how much we see the same. i've said this on previous posts and i'll say it again, "couldn't have said it better."
ray
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Desert Tech
8/19/2010
16:56:38
| RE: will the sevice work end
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"gosh folks I'm speechless" [yeah don't you wish] lol
Thanks for the kudos, but really this is just common sense stuff. Not to take away from Keith's post, but I recall not too many years ago people said a career in real estate was the way to go. The thing is all industries have tanked or will tank before long. The society we live in changes daily, and like rowing a canoe upstream, you have to adapt quickly and dramatically to keep pace. In this industry you need to think like an end user and develop ways to provide what they want. Most of the info from Bus Equip trade journals & magazines comes from "has been" career people that keep holding on to old ways of thinking and can't see the "forest for the trees". Back in the 80's a simple, small copier that did only letter size cost about $2000. Today it costs about $300, so that's how you should approach it. Back in the 80's you could charge $100 per hour. Then again that machine took you about 1 1/2 hours to PM. Today the PM takes you about 20 minutes, so if you charged a flat rate of $50 per machine at an account where you have 2 or 3 machines at the same location to do, you're actually getting about $150 per hour. The customer feels they're getting a deal at $50 each to fix their $300 machines.
Sure, you can't charge $500 a year for a maint contact anymore, but you can make a living if you're creative.
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Mike
8/19/2010
20:02:57
| RE: will the sevice work end
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Amen to that. Be fair and you will make money.Last week went by a church(new customer) jam in a canon pc860. Decided not to bill them (took 10 min). In the last 4 days I sold 3 used copiers to people that go their. That free service call made me over 3000 dollars. The pastor thank my co. during the sermon and referred them. Now iam going back to bud instead of that natural light!
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Desert Tech
8/19/2010
22:02:00
|  RE: will the sevice work end
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There ya go.....
But another advantage of making money at this is being able to brew your own brew at home so you don't have to drink Bud anymore
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Desert Tech
8/19/2010
22:05:57
| RE: will the sevice work end
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....
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Steve
8/20/2010
15:20:16
| RE: will the sevice work end
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I don't know about you guys, but as of the last year or so, I have been doing a lot more bottom feeding than I can recall doing since I started out almost 2 decades ago. And as is typical when bottom feeding, over the last year or so especially I have been more and more frequently taking a hit in the ass trying to service these crap table top boxes. So many of them cannot be serviced profitably, and I don't know about some of you, but I am not out there to pay a trailer note and shop at walliworld. The larger companies do not turn away from these customers because "there is not money in them"- that is only part of it, they turn away because so many of them result in a LOSS, or bad vibes when the customer is presented a bill for a call that didn't repair their crap. A good business transaction is when BOTH parties are happy and frankly, there isn't much love in this environment. I used to enjoy the challenge of a sale, getting to know my customers and repairing a tricky issue, but NOT when there is no money in it. For some of us, this has become more like an abusive relationship than a business. Anyone with any sense knows the gig right now and where things are going. And I say it ain't gonna' be pretty here in a couple more years- once this reality sinks in for those who still labor within their delusions of potential prosperity.
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brokenfax
8/20/2010
16:09:07
| RE: will the sevice work end
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Been fixing business machines since 1961 and I have seen many come and go. Be flexible and look for the new product to come up and be ready to get on board. I jumped from mechanical cash registers and booking equipment to typewriters to copiers to fax machines back to multifunction machines to printers getting too old to switch anymore. Just be ready and keep your eyes and ears open for the latest thing and jump on board. Repairing business machines is similar regardless what you fix.
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Desert Tech
8/20/2010
16:16:18
| RE: will the sevice work end
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That's it Paul......need to be flexible.
Steve - no offense is meant by this, but based on your wording it could be your sour attitude towards smaller equipment walks 10 feet in front of you, and the customers pick up on that.
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Steve
8/20/2010
16:40:14
| RE: will the sevice work end
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DT- no offense taken. Suffice it to say that this board is a venting forum that in part prevents just such scenarios. In a nutshell, I am no spring chicken to customer service or the psychology behind it.
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Tony
8/20/2010
17:59:31
| RE: will the sevice work end
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I myself feel like the customer takes us for granted so we feel abused. I want to believe in your optimistic points of view, but man oh man is it hard. The oldest customers that I have (that are solid accts) abuse you when they can. I know that we will be needed in the future but it comes with us rolling with more punches than ever.
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just plain bill
8/20/2010
18:08:27
| RE: will the sevice work end
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Depending who you are working with, you will always be busy. I worked w/ an indy who had no sales, no motivation to get with the times and blamed everything on the economy. Went on his vacations, and leisure, etc. Could give a f---k about the help, or efforts to do anything to expand his business. I saw the ambitions by servicing for this guy, and let him know on a regular basis. When you don't give a sh--t, you lose, everyone loses.
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Bill T.
8/20/2010
18:50:31
| RE: will the sevice work end
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I know a lot of you guys are one man show or small biz with one, two or maybe three techs, and I can relate to your thoughts on this "career" choice getting close to the bottom. A year and a half ago I worked for a mom and pop for 8 years and watched the decline of service calls. I was the only copier tech and towards the end feared every payday (and some didn’t clear). Now I work for a company with 15+ techs 4 IT guys 7 sales pukes in 4 offices, and now my concerns are when can I get a break, there is ALWAYS something to work on, customers ALWAYS find ways to keep me employed and we pump out 10-15 machines a week. From stand alone faxes, MFP's and 100+ cpm Color and B/W units, EVERY WEEK with no end in sight. I have no idea what the profit margin is on any of these machines but there is no doubt this company is pulling a large profit. Owner of the company believes in rewarding those who work hard, he sponsors local baseball and hockey teams, some local non-profit groups he even sponsors’ my softball tem, we are always have some kind of company paid function . Now, with this being said my fear of having to learn a new trade has not crossed my mind in a long time, and that is a good thing because I am starting to forget how to tie my shoes. Work hard, life is good.
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Steve
8/20/2010
19:12:58
| RE: will the sevice work end
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Again- there is that silly little distinction between "busy" and profitable that gets lost in the conversation (as usual).
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Desert Tech
8/20/2010
20:26:33
| RE: will the sevice work end
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But you CAN be BUSY doing the smaller stuff AND be profitable at the same time.
It was mentioned that larger dealers turn away from smaller customers because they are a loss? Actually, they are a loss to him only because the larger dealer is carrying so much dead weight in overhead expense. He needs the big accounts to generate the thousands of dollars needed each month just to keep the doors open and the lights on. If you don't have a big fancy office and minimize your in-house staff, you can be very profitable on far less. The suggestion that indys who make a living on smaller equipment are 'trailer trash' who are forced to shop at Walmart is absurd. [generally a comment like that comes from someone who in reality lacks the ambition to go it alone] The thing is we don't feel the need to spend thousands each month on a big building so we can have our name in lights for all to see. We don't have a constant need to 'one up' the competition and always be the big fish in the pond. We're happy to be "bottom feeders" while the big guys slug it out for a few 'big contracts' that are just going to nickle and dime you to death anyway. Most of us live in nice homes, drive nice cars, and shop at Walmart when it's prudent. The result, we can regularly take the wife out to a nice dinner [like I did tonight] and take a long weekend vacation every couple of months or so. Anyone who claims this industry is finished is just taking on a negative POV and not looking at the possiblities. Even if they switched careers that kind of thinking will surface again after a month or two.
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Bill T.
8/21/2010
08:43:43
| RE: will the sevice work end
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Steve you missed my point. I AM busy and I am paid well, in addition, the company takes good care of the employees, this can only mean VERY PROFITABLE.
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scfs
8/21/2010
10:18:28
| RE: will the sevice work end
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what the hell were you think'n tony? u no u cant trust customers
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sinbad
8/21/2010
11:13:52
| RE: will the sevice work end
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What does anybody think.. you can't trust nobody!
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Keith
8/21/2010
13:53:44
| RE: will the sevice work end
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Unlike Steve I am not bottom feeding and my money is made on my used machine sales. My contracts pay my employees and overhead. However no one hear can deny the machines are better than they have ever been in the past with much less service. The manufaturers are designing machines that allow cutomers to replace their own drums, transfer assemblies and even fusers now. The machines will connect to the network without our input in the next 10 years. The supplies can be purchased off the internet for not much more than what our cost is and they can even buy new machine boxes from outside sources because there is no protected territories anymore. If making 30K a year is what you are looking for this business is fine but it is getting harder to make 75K to 100K anymore. My son starts UNF next week and I have already told him to get a degree in business or something environmental so he can go work for a bank, financial company or the Government because I dont see a future in this business for him. I find it hard to believe anyone here would lead their children or grandchildren into this business. I am not bitter I have made a good living at this and I will be able to retire doing this in 10 to 15 years but this business is nothing like it was 10 to 30 years ago. Making thousands of dollars on the life of one machine is coming to an end.
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Tony
8/21/2010
16:05:44
| RE: will the sevice work end
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Keith, Well said, your thoughts are very respected.
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Steve
8/21/2010
18:23:35
| RE: will the sevice work end
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Keith has stated the situation to a 't'. And just a few years ago I had the same perspective. But the way I see it now, there is a cycle that service companies go through that is often dependent on their size and particular market. Whether you are small or large and feeling profitable right now, comfortable, as though you are merely treading water or somewhere in hybrid territory, your time is coming. It is getting closer for me as I have posted about having to bottom-feed to keep the guys working since the calls aren't exactly what they used to be, but I am not old enough to retire, so my perspective is going to be a bit different and I don't have the attitude of "well, I got mine".
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wellwisher
8/21/2010
19:27:56
| RE: will the sevice work end
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Steve my man you need to do it on your own, don't decieve good help, and throw them out to the buzzards. could come back and bite ya in yhe ass
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Tony
8/23/2010
15:29:47
| RE: will the sevice work end
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Steve , sorry to be so stupid. What does bottom feeding mean?
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Steve
8/23/2010
16:11:17
| RE: will the sevice work end
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Tony, it means taking the crap that others leave behind (usually for good reason)....like a catfish eating detritus. You know- the deadbeats, slow pays, headaches, etc.. They usually have a machine that costs about twice what you charge for a service call and half of what it would cost to repair it, but you take the calls anyway on the off chance that it is a simple fix and you can keep your guys or yourself busy since most of your decent customers have cut back or fallen for the wiles (and sales for less than it costs for you to even buy machines) of one of the vulture outfits like IKON, Dell, KM, etc..
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Tony
8/23/2010
17:52:57
| RE: will the sevice work end
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Thanks Steve I know what you mean with bottom feeding. I guess what it comes down to do not turn away any business. You are right about the vultures , there are alot out around.
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